AT-TA Network

The first part of this interview took place in Paris in December 1993 and the second part in Mexico City in July 2002.

[1] Paris, December l993

Hans Ulrich Obrist:
You said, "Basically I started to make things so that people would have to use them, which means if you want to buy something then you have to use it... It's not meant to be put out with other sculpture or like another relic and looked at, but you have to use it.  I found that was the best solution to my contradiction in terms of making things and not making things.  Or trying to make less things, but more useful things or more useful relationships."  In terms of your idea that "it is not what you see that is important but what takes place between people," when was the first time you set up a temporary kitchen and cooked curry in a museum or gallery setting?

Rirkrit Tiravanija:
It was called [Untitled 1989] (...). The first food piece was displayed in a group exhibition at the Scott Hanson Gallery, which no longer exists ("Outside the Clock: Beyond Good & Elvis," Scott Hanson Gallery, New York, 1989). Four pedestals were blocking the passage between the entry way and the exhibition space. On these pedestals were displayed various processes of a curry being cooked, i.e., a pedestal for ingredients, a pedestal with curry cooking on a burner, a pedestal with waste products. The visitors could smell the cooking curry as they entered the space; the smell permeated through the gallery. A new pot of curry was cooked once a week. But the curry was not to be eaten.

HUO:
And when was the first time that you invited the "viewers" to share and taste the curry?

RT:
It was for [Untitled 1992 (Free)] in my one-person exhibition at 303 Gallery, New York. All of the contents of the gallery were emptied out into the main exhibition space, including the office. All doors (to office, storage rooms, cabinets, toilet, etc.) were removed from their frames to open and empty out hidden spaces. The office emptied out is then timed into a social/meeting space with two pots of curry (one red curry, one green) and a pot of rice to offer the visitor on their lunch. (The windows in an office play a significant role as external/internal can be viewed). On display in the office are the ingredients of the meal plus the remains from the cooking and eating process (which later becomes documentation of the situation at hand). The cooking and food for the first time (there were other projects previous to this, which occurred for only one evening or just for the opening of exhibition) is made continuously through the duration of the exhibition. The gallery office space became a central meeting point and rest stop for many regular visitors to SoHo. "(Free)" in this particular situation could signify the emptying of context/content. From exhibition to non-exhibit of place/non-place. "(Free)" could also be read as open---or as plain and simple as no charge for the situation (free food).

HUO:
Very quickly, you also developed more and more complex environments for these encounters.  Could you tell me, for instance, about your tearoom at Exit Art in New York in 1993?

RT:
It was [Untitled 1993 (The Cure)] and it was in a group show called "Fever." In response to the context of "Fever," I built a tea tent using a material with the color of Thai Buddhist monks' robes: golden orange. The dimensions of the tent were made to the specifications of a Japanese tearoom---measuring ten-by-ten-by-ten-feet. The measurement the Japanese got is derived from a Buddhist scripture---which is the measurement of a room in which the Lord Buddha gave sermon to 40,000 monks (mind over matter). Tea plus water plus kettle plus teapots with a table and chair were set into the tent. The door of the tent faces a window---inside the space the exhibition is blocked out of view. Tea, being a drink of medicinal quality (and for me with cultural significance) was to become an antidote to the "Fever" and a space for rest, contemplation, etc.

HUO:
Another type of environment like this one is the one that took place this summer at the Biennale di Venezia ("Aperto 93," La Biennale di Venezia, 45th International Art Exhibition, 1993).

RT:
It was [Untitled 1993 (twelve seventy one)]. "Twelve seventy one" because it was the year Marco Polo had set off to the Far East from Venice. The centerpiece to this project is an aluminum canoe---the canoe being an image of Native America---and inside the canoe are two pots filled with water, which are being boiled-so there is water also in the canoe itself. The image of boats with food being cooked in them are drawn from Thailand. And accompanying the canoe are local cafe tables---and fold out stools put out to be used by the visitors to the Aperto. There are also Cup 'O Noodles in boxes that were shipped in from the U.S. and that were made by a Japanese company in California, and these cups of noodles were left for the visitors to help themselves as they are instantly cooked. This situation lasted as long as there were noodles for the viewers to consume (this did not take too long). The remains were left as evidence of the event. I had used Venice as a focus for the piece-which was a collage of place, mythologies (Marco Polo and the pasta from the Orient), hybrids of culture, tourism. And this also provided a possible place for rest and passage in the context of the exhibition.